If there is one question I've been asked more than any other over the years, it's whether or not a church management system should include accounting or not.
In short: No, but it's ok if it does.
Let me explain: Church Management Systems need to include contribution data, because that's the best way to keep donations associated with the proper people without duplication of data. In fact, properly attributing contributions and creating year end reports and giving letters is one of the single most important functions of a church database. At a prior church I wrote a database specifically around this need after the IRS regulations changed in 1994, so I understand this area very well.
However, after those contributions are recorded, the actual entry into the finance system is a simple one. Generally a single journal entry that matches the deposit and assigns the income to the necessary accounts is all that is required. This takes, at most, a few minutes a week. So, while it's ok for a church management system and a finance system to be together in one package, it is completely unnecessary. What is important is that you have a church finance system that works the way you want it to, and supports your organization with accurate financials and reporting, and that you have a church membership database that meets your needs and helps your church minister more effectively to the people God has entrusted to your care.
It is not worth compromising either function for the sake of integration. Buy the best financial package to meet your needs, and buy the best church management solution to meet your needs.
Joel
Friday, August 29, 2008
Thursday, August 21, 2008
ChMS - Questions
I asked each of our three finalists to answer questions about the strength of their company and the direction of their products. HDC is a large operation, and the investment we will place in software goes far beyond the costs charged by the vendor. I expect that we will invest significant hours/days/weeks in design and implementation, significant time in data conversion, and a massive investment in training our staff. Beyond the staff, we have volunteers to educate about the use of the system, our people to train in using the check-in and web functions, and cultural and procedural shifts that will accompany something of this scope.
In short, I don't want to get this one wrong.
I want to be sure that the company we choose will be around in a five years. I also want to be sure the product won't be abandoned, and I want to know what the future plans are for it. I won't share these responses with you, because they are too confidential for a public forum such as this, but I will give you my questions:
Questions:
(1) What is your largest church. How many people records do they have in their database?
Who do I contact to ask about the database?
(2) Please provide me with contact info for a forward thinking church of about 4000 weekly that uses your solution.
(3) Please provide me with list of ten references other than the two above.
(4) What is your "signature church?" In other words, what church do you believe uses your solution more effectively than any other?
Who do I talk to at that church?
(5) What is the single strongest selling point for your solution?
(6) Why should I choose your product over the others in this comparison?
(7) What does the development roadmap look like over the next year?
(8) Is your company profitable?
(9) How many people are on your development team?
Tech support team?
Sales team?
Any unique positions that you feel set your company apart from the others?
What is the total staff size of the company?
(10) How many total churches are using the product?
(11) What are the technical details of the backend?
What SQL database?
What other technologies is the product based on (php, .net, ajax etc.)?
(12) Please explain to me, in detail, the setup and conversion process. If I signed a contract with your company on September 8, what would the process look like from there?
(13) Our current database is Roll Call.
How much of our data can we expect to carry over from Roll Call?
Is the responsibility on me to figure out how to export or data or will your team work on our database directly?
We are operating under the assumption that all of our data (name, address, phone, email, group membership, keywords, attendance data, confidential comments, contributions, etc.) is valuable unless proven otherwise. We are willing to pay extra to facilitate this conversion properly, but we'd need a quote. We currently have 24354 people records, 12650 addresses, 136791 donations.
Have you done a Roll Call conversion before?
Please give me a contact name & number for the church as I'd like to ascertain their view of the conversion process.
(14) How will our online giving and event registration be processed?
What is the fee schedule for online giving, registration etc.
(15) Please explain where my data will be located.
How often is it backed up?
How far back is the data kept?
Is there offsite backup in a city/region other than the primary one in which my data is located?
How often is that offsite backup updated?
(16) What is the annual cost for my database at 3900 weekly adult attendance (which is our current average for September '07 through August '08),
4000 weekly,
5000 weekly,
6000, 7000, 8000, 9000 and 10,000 weekly?
(17) Please explain how customers can extend your product.
Is there an API?
What does that API cover?
What are some ways your customers have used that power to do creative and unique things with your database?
What is in place to allow customers to share those tools that are developed?
(18) Is there a method for us to get direct read access (for pure SQL queries and such) to our data, or a very recent copy of our data?
(19) Please detail the technical requirements for a checkin station: processor, ram, hd space, version of windows (or better yet, linux or mac os) required, label printer (and average cost), screen resolution, can it utilize a touch screen, does it require a keyboard, does it require a mouse, and anything else of note.
(20) Does the checkin continue to function if our internet connection goes down?
(21) Please describe what security is in place to protect our data from hackers.
(22) Please describe what method is used to insure that separate users do not simultaneously edit the same record, or if they can, what is in place to protect against data corruption?
(23) Is there an online community of users for your product?
Please provide me with a login to peruse the members area of the community.
(24) What are the tech support hours?
How do I get ahold of someone if there appears to be a significant problem on a weekend?
How do you troubleshoot speed issues with clients?
(25) Does the database have any provision for login from "lite" internet devices, such as an iphone for on the go access to data?
(26) Is there an LDAP server providing our mail clients the ability to search our database to address an email?
These questions are general in nature, but will help me understand the companies better as we look at this with a long term view. These are only one part of the analysis. I'll share the other parts with you in another post.
Joel
In short, I don't want to get this one wrong.
I want to be sure that the company we choose will be around in a five years. I also want to be sure the product won't be abandoned, and I want to know what the future plans are for it. I won't share these responses with you, because they are too confidential for a public forum such as this, but I will give you my questions:
Questions:
(1) What is your largest church. How many people records do they have in their database?
Who do I contact to ask about the database?
(2) Please provide me with contact info for a forward thinking church of about 4000 weekly that uses your solution.
(3) Please provide me with list of ten references other than the two above.
(4) What is your "signature church?" In other words, what church do you believe uses your solution more effectively than any other?
Who do I talk to at that church?
(5) What is the single strongest selling point for your solution?
(6) Why should I choose your product over the others in this comparison?
(7) What does the development roadmap look like over the next year?
(8) Is your company profitable?
(9) How many people are on your development team?
Tech support team?
Sales team?
Any unique positions that you feel set your company apart from the others?
What is the total staff size of the company?
(10) How many total churches are using the product?
(11) What are the technical details of the backend?
What SQL database?
What other technologies is the product based on (php, .net, ajax etc.)?
(12) Please explain to me, in detail, the setup and conversion process. If I signed a contract with your company on September 8, what would the process look like from there?
(13) Our current database is Roll Call.
How much of our data can we expect to carry over from Roll Call?
Is the responsibility on me to figure out how to export or data or will your team work on our database directly?
We are operating under the assumption that all of our data (name, address, phone, email, group membership, keywords, attendance data, confidential comments, contributions, etc.) is valuable unless proven otherwise. We are willing to pay extra to facilitate this conversion properly, but we'd need a quote. We currently have 24354 people records, 12650 addresses, 136791 donations.
Have you done a Roll Call conversion before?
Please give me a contact name & number for the church as I'd like to ascertain their view of the conversion process.
(14) How will our online giving and event registration be processed?
What is the fee schedule for online giving, registration etc.
(15) Please explain where my data will be located.
How often is it backed up?
How far back is the data kept?
Is there offsite backup in a city/region other than the primary one in which my data is located?
How often is that offsite backup updated?
(16) What is the annual cost for my database at 3900 weekly adult attendance (which is our current average for September '07 through August '08),
4000 weekly,
5000 weekly,
6000, 7000, 8000, 9000 and 10,000 weekly?
(17) Please explain how customers can extend your product.
Is there an API?
What does that API cover?
What are some ways your customers have used that power to do creative and unique things with your database?
What is in place to allow customers to share those tools that are developed?
(18) Is there a method for us to get direct read access (for pure SQL queries and such) to our data, or a very recent copy of our data?
(19) Please detail the technical requirements for a checkin station: processor, ram, hd space, version of windows (or better yet, linux or mac os) required, label printer (and average cost), screen resolution, can it utilize a touch screen, does it require a keyboard, does it require a mouse, and anything else of note.
(20) Does the checkin continue to function if our internet connection goes down?
(21) Please describe what security is in place to protect our data from hackers.
(22) Please describe what method is used to insure that separate users do not simultaneously edit the same record, or if they can, what is in place to protect against data corruption?
(23) Is there an online community of users for your product?
Please provide me with a login to peruse the members area of the community.
(24) What are the tech support hours?
How do I get ahold of someone if there appears to be a significant problem on a weekend?
How do you troubleshoot speed issues with clients?
(25) Does the database have any provision for login from "lite" internet devices, such as an iphone for on the go access to data?
(26) Is there an LDAP server providing our mail clients the ability to search our database to address an email?
These questions are general in nature, but will help me understand the companies better as we look at this with a long term view. These are only one part of the analysis. I'll share the other parts with you in another post.
Joel
Tuesday, August 19, 2008
Soul Graffiti
Soul Graffiti is a book by Mark Scandrette, a book about making a life in the way of Jesus. What exactly, does that mean? That's the purpose and point of this book.Mark is an effective storyteller, and that trait permeates this book. An open and honest discussion about how to live like Jesus is interwoven with stories of Mark and his family living among the poor and the disadvantaged in the mission district of San Francisco. What makes this book powerful are those stories, because they tell of action. This book is not about theory, about postulating, it's about living as Christ to those around us. I loved the story Mark recounted of moving into a house, of being gracious to those that had lived there before him, and then having the police come to his door saying "Do you realize what was going on in this house before you moved in?" Mark and his family did not seek to stay away from the decay of the city, they put themselves right in the middle of it.
While the stories give the book its power, there are some very engaging thoughts that I've been grappling with for a while. In a section titled "Tasting a World that is Alive with the Energy of God" Mark contrasts our modern society with an older agricultural community. "On Sundays after barn chores, they arrived at a building with mud on their feet to give thanks to God, seated next to neighbors with whom they had worked in fields during the week. Perhaps as they sang 'Praise God from Whom All Blessings Flow' they called to mind a good heavy spring rain or the fruit of their fields set on their tables" Mark continues a paragraph or two later "In the hurried and technological society in which we live, we have to be more intentional about practices that help us recognize the goodness of God revealed in creation...We have lost our connection to the soil, our food sources, and the skill of making things with our hands."
Although a minor point in his book, I have been grappling with this since the day I first read it. We live in a world where we spend the week indoors, under fluorescent lights, and then on the weekends we want people to come to church to worship God indoors. How do we, as a church, help people reconnect with God the creator, with the God of the universe?
The conclusion of Mark's book, Enter the Jesus Dojo, is a bit of a letdown. I think that's because it in many ways is not really necessary. Mark leads by example through this book, and a chapter "wrapping things up" is really unnecessary. Mark has shown through his words and deeds what it means to live like Christ, and this book inspires the reader to do the same.
Joel
Monday, August 18, 2008
ChMS - Three Great Solutions
With this post, I breathe a huge sigh of relief. Although the process is not done, we at last have narrowed the field to three very solid contenders who we believe are well suited to meet our needs. All in all we had phone appointments and online demos with eight companies. Those demos ranged from one hour to five hours (!) and seemed to average about three hours each. Beyond the actual time on the phone we spent time going over the features, discussing what we had seen, and writing up summaries and notes to keep things fresh. It is amazing how difficult it is to keep eight distinct software solutions clear in my mind...
You might notice I have been saying "we" and that's because I brought Judy Caffey, my director of office administration in on this phase of evaluation. Her insight and understanding of how we use the database proved extraordinarily helpful as we evaluated all of these solutions. She also provided someone to bounce my thoughts off of, and to hear her thoughts as well. The great thing was that at the end of the day, we were on the same page with each of the solutions.
After two solid weeks of meetings, we have narrowed the field to three. Each of these solutions has its strengths and its weaknesses. At this point there is no clear leader. We now have to dig as deep as possible into each solution to figure out who offers the very best solution for our particular needs. Although I'm sure everyone reading this wants to know which company we finally end up with, I am fully confident that if your needs are similar to HDC, any one of these three companies can provide a fantastic solution.
Our next phase is to meet with the rest of the staff team, discuss their database needs, and line those up with the solutions set before us. You might wonder why we did not do that first. It's a fair question, and one that I can answer. I spent five hours with a vendor looking over their solution with only our current needs plus a general sense of where we wanted to go. If I had to try to keep dozens of other requirements in mind as well, it would be completely overwhelming. I needed to know what our options truly were before we could get down to the fine level of detail of trying to meet everyone's needs. As a second point, people who don't understand what this software does may want things that simply cannot be provided. With the knowledge we have now we are very clear on what can be done, and what cannot be done. Finally, sometimes people want things that aren't necessarily the best idea. It's easy to focus on "how we do it now" rather than what is the best way to get a task done. We are well aware that we will have to revamp our processes in order to take full advantage of a new database. I didn't want a huge list of requirements to get in the way, or to distract us from our focus of finding the best solution to our particular problems.
So, the three companies that we are going to select from are (in alphabetical order):
Arena
ConnectionPower
FellowshipOne
Don't be fooled by the website for Arena, it's a fantastic product. Their website does a brilliant job of concealing the power of Arena from potential customers, obscuring it in a sea of marketing and irrelevant talking points. Arena is unique in this comparison in that you can host the server in your own server room if you wish, although that is not required (the _vast_ majority of the customers host it personally). It also offers something that nobody else does in Asterisk integration. Asterisk is an open source VOIP telephone system that we are moving to, so I was very excited by that prospect.
Beyond hosting the product myself, I really like the fact that Arena offers a developer program that allows our staff to do some customization, and has thought through the issues to make that work. The product has a beautiful interface, and it seems very intuitive to me. One of the very coolest unique features is tracking mission trips, which appears to take the administration out of mission trips, allowing your staff to focus on preparing the team instead of little details like who has their money in and did they get a passport... Beyond that, it nails the basics, which is obviously critical. Arena is not perfect, but we'll get to that later.
Connection Power has the most impressive volunteer management and assimilation tools of the group. It's checkin module works offline and will upload the data when the internet connection is restored. CP sends text messages to volunteers to let them know of time sensitive assignments, recognizing that many people rarely check their email. Connection Power also nails the basics, which is most important. Connection Power is not perfect, but we'll get to that later.
Fellowship One has the most impressive user community of all the various software companies. I love the way they work to get information from their users, and information to their users. It seems that Fellowship One is working very hard to insure that the churches that use their product get the most out of it. Address information is verified against USPS records, making for very accurate database information. The new people screen interface provides quick access to many little details that we are seeking, and is very attractive as well. Fellowship One is not perfect, but we'll get to that later.
There are far more things to love about each of these products than what I have listed here. I have only shown a few things that really stood out to me about each product. Now it's time to get back to work, to narrow the field again to a final company that we can partner with to provide our database needs. I'll keep you posted on our progress.
Joel
You might notice I have been saying "we" and that's because I brought Judy Caffey, my director of office administration in on this phase of evaluation. Her insight and understanding of how we use the database proved extraordinarily helpful as we evaluated all of these solutions. She also provided someone to bounce my thoughts off of, and to hear her thoughts as well. The great thing was that at the end of the day, we were on the same page with each of the solutions.
After two solid weeks of meetings, we have narrowed the field to three. Each of these solutions has its strengths and its weaknesses. At this point there is no clear leader. We now have to dig as deep as possible into each solution to figure out who offers the very best solution for our particular needs. Although I'm sure everyone reading this wants to know which company we finally end up with, I am fully confident that if your needs are similar to HDC, any one of these three companies can provide a fantastic solution.
Our next phase is to meet with the rest of the staff team, discuss their database needs, and line those up with the solutions set before us. You might wonder why we did not do that first. It's a fair question, and one that I can answer. I spent five hours with a vendor looking over their solution with only our current needs plus a general sense of where we wanted to go. If I had to try to keep dozens of other requirements in mind as well, it would be completely overwhelming. I needed to know what our options truly were before we could get down to the fine level of detail of trying to meet everyone's needs. As a second point, people who don't understand what this software does may want things that simply cannot be provided. With the knowledge we have now we are very clear on what can be done, and what cannot be done. Finally, sometimes people want things that aren't necessarily the best idea. It's easy to focus on "how we do it now" rather than what is the best way to get a task done. We are well aware that we will have to revamp our processes in order to take full advantage of a new database. I didn't want a huge list of requirements to get in the way, or to distract us from our focus of finding the best solution to our particular problems.
So, the three companies that we are going to select from are (in alphabetical order):
Arena
ConnectionPower
FellowshipOne
Don't be fooled by the website for Arena, it's a fantastic product. Their website does a brilliant job of concealing the power of Arena from potential customers, obscuring it in a sea of marketing and irrelevant talking points. Arena is unique in this comparison in that you can host the server in your own server room if you wish, although that is not required (the _vast_ majority of the customers host it personally). It also offers something that nobody else does in Asterisk integration. Asterisk is an open source VOIP telephone system that we are moving to, so I was very excited by that prospect.
Beyond hosting the product myself, I really like the fact that Arena offers a developer program that allows our staff to do some customization, and has thought through the issues to make that work. The product has a beautiful interface, and it seems very intuitive to me. One of the very coolest unique features is tracking mission trips, which appears to take the administration out of mission trips, allowing your staff to focus on preparing the team instead of little details like who has their money in and did they get a passport... Beyond that, it nails the basics, which is obviously critical. Arena is not perfect, but we'll get to that later.
Connection Power has the most impressive volunteer management and assimilation tools of the group. It's checkin module works offline and will upload the data when the internet connection is restored. CP sends text messages to volunteers to let them know of time sensitive assignments, recognizing that many people rarely check their email. Connection Power also nails the basics, which is most important. Connection Power is not perfect, but we'll get to that later.
Fellowship One has the most impressive user community of all the various software companies. I love the way they work to get information from their users, and information to their users. It seems that Fellowship One is working very hard to insure that the churches that use their product get the most out of it. Address information is verified against USPS records, making for very accurate database information. The new people screen interface provides quick access to many little details that we are seeking, and is very attractive as well. Fellowship One is not perfect, but we'll get to that later.
There are far more things to love about each of these products than what I have listed here. I have only shown a few things that really stood out to me about each product. Now it's time to get back to work, to narrow the field again to a final company that we can partner with to provide our database needs. I'll keep you posted on our progress.
Joel
ChMS - Church Community Builder
If you haven't already, you MUST read the summary of what we are looking for. This is critical to understand my comments. The vendors being reviewed work hard to provide a good product to serve the church, and they should be commended for that. Our needs are very specific, and just because a product isn't right for us does not mean that it isn't perfect for your church. By the same token, just because we didn't like a product does not mean it doesn't meet needs or provide genuine value to its clients. The blurb and "target market" are taken from the capterra list I referenced in my first post. Finally, my thoughts are my own and not an official position of my employer. Thank you.
If you've been with me for a while in this journey you know that we started with a list of 147 companies which was narrowed to 46, then 22 and finally six, which eventually became eight. Two companies (Arena and Kingdom Tools) contacted me and I gave them each a second look. After evaluating all of these solutions, there were five that stood out from the rest, and three that made the final grouping. CCB is one of the two products that did not make the last grouping, but it is a very solid solution.
Church Community Builder - CCB
Web-based church management system that helps a church's staff, leaders, members and visitors easily communicate.
Target Market: Small - Large
Quick Summary - Worth Consideration
http://www.churchcommunitybuilder.com/
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - At least 15
How many customers? - 850+
How long in business? - 9 years
Are they profitable? - Yes. Also debt free.
Technical Details - Has an XML based API allowing PHP, Perl, Java etc. to access CCB
Volunteer Management - Provides ways for volunteers to indicate interest and staff to search for potential volunteers.
Web Integration - Offers an extensible API for integration
Attendance - It’s there, but not sure how this works for services. Examples are for sunday school classes, small groups etc. Also tracks headcount for events. Not sure of they are separate.
Assimilation -Provides accountability for staff and volunteers to complete their tasks and followup.
Level 2 Summary - CCB seems very mature, robust, and forward looking. The API is very exciting, because it allows us to extend the product on our own without having to pay CCB to do so. This is an excellent product that belongs in our top five for consideration.
Level 3 Analysis - CCB is a very good product that just ... doesn’t ... fit ... HDC. I don’t know how else to explain it. The interface seems quite cumbersome at times, and the stuff that really “makes” CCB just doesn't seem to be us. That said, there is much to love about CCB.
The forms module is the most impressive feature. It allows you to build very robust online forms that will cause things to happen like register you for an event. The forms are totally customizable and it was very powerful. The other strength was the check-in, which seemed very well thought through. Interestingly, this was the only one that worked on a web interface instead of requiring software running on a windows box.
One very nice feature of CCB was an “iphone mode” that provides a smaller interface suitable for the iphone for information retrieval on the go. Very cool idea!
In any comparison there will be bad solutions, good solutions, and great solutions. CCB is a very good solution, but it isn't the right solution for HDC. Still, even though it wasn't right for us, it may be perfect for you and deserves your consideration.
Joel
If you've been with me for a while in this journey you know that we started with a list of 147 companies which was narrowed to 46, then 22 and finally six, which eventually became eight. Two companies (Arena and Kingdom Tools) contacted me and I gave them each a second look. After evaluating all of these solutions, there were five that stood out from the rest, and three that made the final grouping. CCB is one of the two products that did not make the last grouping, but it is a very solid solution.
Church Community Builder - CCB
Web-based church management system that helps a church's staff, leaders, members and visitors easily communicate.
Target Market: Small - Large
Quick Summary - Worth Consideration
http://www.churchcommunitybuilder.com/
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - At least 15
How many customers? - 850+
How long in business? - 9 years
Are they profitable? - Yes. Also debt free.
Technical Details - Has an XML based API allowing PHP, Perl, Java etc. to access CCB
Volunteer Management - Provides ways for volunteers to indicate interest and staff to search for potential volunteers.
Web Integration - Offers an extensible API for integration
Attendance - It’s there, but not sure how this works for services. Examples are for sunday school classes, small groups etc. Also tracks headcount for events. Not sure of they are separate.
Assimilation -Provides accountability for staff and volunteers to complete their tasks and followup.
Level 2 Summary - CCB seems very mature, robust, and forward looking. The API is very exciting, because it allows us to extend the product on our own without having to pay CCB to do so. This is an excellent product that belongs in our top five for consideration.
Level 3 Analysis - CCB is a very good product that just ... doesn’t ... fit ... HDC. I don’t know how else to explain it. The interface seems quite cumbersome at times, and the stuff that really “makes” CCB just doesn't seem to be us. That said, there is much to love about CCB.
The forms module is the most impressive feature. It allows you to build very robust online forms that will cause things to happen like register you for an event. The forms are totally customizable and it was very powerful. The other strength was the check-in, which seemed very well thought through. Interestingly, this was the only one that worked on a web interface instead of requiring software running on a windows box.
One very nice feature of CCB was an “iphone mode” that provides a smaller interface suitable for the iphone for information retrieval on the go. Very cool idea!
In any comparison there will be bad solutions, good solutions, and great solutions. CCB is a very good solution, but it isn't the right solution for HDC. Still, even though it wasn't right for us, it may be perfect for you and deserves your consideration.
Joel
ChMS - Ascribe
If you haven't already, you MUST read the summary of what we are looking for. This is critical to understand my comments. The vendors being reviewed work hard to provide a good product to serve the church, and they should be commended for that. Our needs are very specific, and just because a product isn't right for us does not mean that it isn't perfect for your church. By the same token, just because we didn't like a product does not mean it doesn't meet needs or provide genuine value to its clients. The blurb and "target market" are taken from the capterra list I referenced in my first post. Finally, my thoughts are my own and not an official position of my employer. Thank you.
If you've been with me for a while in this journey you know that we started with a list of 147 companies which was narrowed to 46, then 22 and finally six, which eventually became eight. Two companies (Arena and Kingdom Tools) contacted me and I gave them each a second look. After evaluating all of these solutions, there were five that stood out from the rest, and three that made the final grouping. Ascribe is one of the two products that did not make the last grouping, but it is a very solid solution.
Ascribe Data Systems - Ascribe
A powerful and easy-to-use online software to help churches as they disciple, equip, steward, preach and more.
Target Market: Small - Large
Quick Summary - Young Product
http://www.ascribedata.com/
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - Small Company
How many customers? - As of August 2006, around 20. A bit more now.
How long in business? - Software started 2001, customers seem to date from 2004 or so.
Are they profitable? - Yes
Technical Details - PHP, Javascript, Ajax, MySQL
Volunteer Management - Good.
Web Integration - Good.
Attendance - It’s simple to take attendance, but it shows attendance as a log, which is harder to digest at a glance than what we use now.
Assimilation - Ascribe’s assimilation and visitor followup would fit nicely with the process we are developing, and some of the things it does are better than some of my finalists.
Level 2 Summary - Ascribe is a small software company that appears to have a pretty good product. There are two large churches using the product, as best as I can tell. It’s web based and seems reasonably flexible. The website seems to be dated late 2005 or early 2006.
Level 3 Analysis - Ascribe is an amazing product. The website does not do it justice, and actually represents an old version of the product. The interface is very attractive and it is well thought through. There are some confusing elements, but once you get used to its way of thinking it’s not hard to move around in ascribe very quickly. Ascribe has a good volunteer management and visitor assimilation featureset, and it could work for us very nicely.
There are problems with ascribe though. Reporting is limited and not flexible enough for us. My director of office administration felt that the interface required a lot of mouse activity. There is no check scanning or automated check-in available at this time, which might not be a big deal for you but it was for us. Those quibbles aside, Ascribe is a very good solution, and I believe that anyone undertaking this comparison should include it for consideration.
Although it was not the right solution for us, I believe that Ascribe has a bright future. This is a good product that feels polished and powerful.
Joel
If you've been with me for a while in this journey you know that we started with a list of 147 companies which was narrowed to 46, then 22 and finally six, which eventually became eight. Two companies (Arena and Kingdom Tools) contacted me and I gave them each a second look. After evaluating all of these solutions, there were five that stood out from the rest, and three that made the final grouping. Ascribe is one of the two products that did not make the last grouping, but it is a very solid solution.
Ascribe Data Systems - Ascribe
A powerful and easy-to-use online software to help churches as they disciple, equip, steward, preach and more.
Target Market: Small - Large
Quick Summary - Young Product
http://www.ascribedata.com/
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - Small Company
How many customers? - As of August 2006, around 20. A bit more now.
How long in business? - Software started 2001, customers seem to date from 2004 or so.
Are they profitable? - Yes
Technical Details - PHP, Javascript, Ajax, MySQL
Volunteer Management - Good.
Web Integration - Good.
Attendance - It’s simple to take attendance, but it shows attendance as a log, which is harder to digest at a glance than what we use now.
Assimilation - Ascribe’s assimilation and visitor followup would fit nicely with the process we are developing, and some of the things it does are better than some of my finalists.
Level 2 Summary - Ascribe is a small software company that appears to have a pretty good product. There are two large churches using the product, as best as I can tell. It’s web based and seems reasonably flexible. The website seems to be dated late 2005 or early 2006.
Level 3 Analysis - Ascribe is an amazing product. The website does not do it justice, and actually represents an old version of the product. The interface is very attractive and it is well thought through. There are some confusing elements, but once you get used to its way of thinking it’s not hard to move around in ascribe very quickly. Ascribe has a good volunteer management and visitor assimilation featureset, and it could work for us very nicely.
There are problems with ascribe though. Reporting is limited and not flexible enough for us. My director of office administration felt that the interface required a lot of mouse activity. There is no check scanning or automated check-in available at this time, which might not be a big deal for you but it was for us. Those quibbles aside, Ascribe is a very good solution, and I believe that anyone undertaking this comparison should include it for consideration.
Although it was not the right solution for us, I believe that Ascribe has a bright future. This is a good product that feels polished and powerful.
Joel
ChMS - myFlock
If you haven't already, you MUST read the summary of what we are looking for. This is critical to understand my comments. The vendors being reviewed work hard to provide a good product to serve the church, and they should be commended for that. Our needs are very specific, and just because a product isn't right for us does not mean that it isn't perfect for your church. By the same token, just because we didn't like a product does not mean it doesn't meet needs or provide genuine value to its clients. The blurb and "target market" are taken from the capterra list I referenced in my first post. Finally, my thoughts are my own and not an official position of my employer. Thank you.
I included myFlock into this comparison because I wanted to see what social networking looked like within a church website.
myFlock
Christian social networking for you, a complete web solution for your church.
Target Market: Medium - Large
Quick Summary - Seems like jack of all trades, master of none, but we should look at it to evaluate the social networking aspects.
http://myflock.com
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - Small Company
How many customers? - 500
How long in business? - 2001
Are they profitable? - I assume so
Technical Details - Apache, MySQL, PHP, Perl
Volunteer Management - Does not provide the task accountability we are seeking
Web Integration - Complete.
Attendance - Not well suited to our size dataset
Assimilation - Not comprehensive
Level 2 Summary - I really need to do the demo to get a better picture of this software. At this point, I am still interested and I like what I see and I’d like to see where they are going with it.
Level 3 Analysis - myFlock does a decent job of being a private myspace, to foster interaction among the church community. My biggest issue is that I'm not sure I like that approach. We focus on people reaching their OIKOS, the 8-15 people in their relational world that God has supernaturally and strategically placed in their life. The problem is that their OIKOS is not going to want to have an account on a church version of myspace, they already have an account on facebook... I think, for us and our approach, we really need to look at how the church can leverage a tool like facebook.
myFlock has far better church management tools than you can discern from their website, but they aren't at the level we are looking for. The interface is a bit cumbersome, and it seems like it's built on older web technology. The good side of that is that the technology is tested and stable, but it doesn't have the polish or smooth operation of some of the other solutions that leverage all the latest goodies.
Reservations aside, myflock is not a bad product. It is by far the cheapest solution I considered. It something like 10% of the cost of some of the other solutions, and is a pretty good value for the money.
Joel
I included myFlock into this comparison because I wanted to see what social networking looked like within a church website.
myFlock
Christian social networking for you, a complete web solution for your church.
Target Market: Medium - Large
Quick Summary - Seems like jack of all trades, master of none, but we should look at it to evaluate the social networking aspects.
http://myflock.com
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - Small Company
How many customers? - 500
How long in business? - 2001
Are they profitable? - I assume so
Technical Details - Apache, MySQL, PHP, Perl
Volunteer Management - Does not provide the task accountability we are seeking
Web Integration - Complete.
Attendance - Not well suited to our size dataset
Assimilation - Not comprehensive
Level 2 Summary - I really need to do the demo to get a better picture of this software. At this point, I am still interested and I like what I see and I’d like to see where they are going with it.
Level 3 Analysis - myFlock does a decent job of being a private myspace, to foster interaction among the church community. My biggest issue is that I'm not sure I like that approach. We focus on people reaching their OIKOS, the 8-15 people in their relational world that God has supernaturally and strategically placed in their life. The problem is that their OIKOS is not going to want to have an account on a church version of myspace, they already have an account on facebook... I think, for us and our approach, we really need to look at how the church can leverage a tool like facebook.
myFlock has far better church management tools than you can discern from their website, but they aren't at the level we are looking for. The interface is a bit cumbersome, and it seems like it's built on older web technology. The good side of that is that the technology is tested and stable, but it doesn't have the polish or smooth operation of some of the other solutions that leverage all the latest goodies.
Reservations aside, myflock is not a bad product. It is by far the cheapest solution I considered. It something like 10% of the cost of some of the other solutions, and is a pretty good value for the money.
Joel
Sunday, August 17, 2008
Clone Wars
Star Wars.
Those two words invoke great excitement to me and almost any other male around my age. Seeing Star Wars for the first time as a five year old was an awe inspiring experience. I had never seen _anything_ like it, and it completely blew me away. I still remember the feeling I had when I got home, of wanting nothing more in the world than to see it again...
Much has been written about the five movies that followed, both good and bad. I am not in the group of people that thinks that Lucas should be producing Citizen Kane quality scripts for the prequels. I enjoyed them for what they were, and enjoyed the immensely. Were they perfect? No. Episode II could have been vastly improved with the inclusion of a couple of scenes that made the DVD as deleted scenes, for one. But they were fun, which was the point.
A cartoon network series called "The Clone Wars" was produced between Episode II and III. What made those cool was that they filled in a lot of the gaps between the two movies. General Grievious is not all that interesting in Episode III, but he is awesome in the cartoon. Further, if you saw the clone wars, you understand why Grievious was coughing and injured when we first meet him in Episode III.
But I digress (and provide a suitable disclaimer for my enthusiasm!)
On Friday I took my seven year old son to see the new "Clone Wars" that was released in the theaters. In short, we had a great time.
Lucas has always wanted to produce saturday morning serials in space, and with the clone wars he finally has it. It even begins with the feel of "we join our fearless heros as they fight this epic battle!" with a cheesy announcer over the action. The Clone Wars is to be a TV series this fall on cartoon network, and this movie lays the groundwork for a lot of action adventure. I almost expected a voiceover at the end to say "tune in next week to see our heros fight evil once again!"
The story was simple, but a fun ride. Dooku is the prime villain, but the movie is about small piece of the galactic conflict and the republic having access to space routes controlled by the hutts. There are no earth shattering plot twists, it's simple and straightforward. Exactly what you would expect from a saturday morning serial aimed at kids.
The only uncomfortable moment for me is the character of ziro the hutt, who is clearly a transvestite. Thankfully, my son has no idea but I wasn't exactly amused. The character is terrible top to bottom, and has no place in a star wars universe. Hopefully he is history after this movie.
My son is seven, and he can't wait for the tv series this fall. And that's really the point. Lucas has always wanted to do this, and he finally has his venue. The Clone Wars lets him create what he has always wanted to do, and we get to come along and enjoy the ride. I am grateful that we can enjoy this. Would I go see this in the theater if I didn't have a seven year old? No, but I would definitely buy the dvd.
Joel
Those two words invoke great excitement to me and almost any other male around my age. Seeing Star Wars for the first time as a five year old was an awe inspiring experience. I had never seen _anything_ like it, and it completely blew me away. I still remember the feeling I had when I got home, of wanting nothing more in the world than to see it again...
Much has been written about the five movies that followed, both good and bad. I am not in the group of people that thinks that Lucas should be producing Citizen Kane quality scripts for the prequels. I enjoyed them for what they were, and enjoyed the immensely. Were they perfect? No. Episode II could have been vastly improved with the inclusion of a couple of scenes that made the DVD as deleted scenes, for one. But they were fun, which was the point.
A cartoon network series called "The Clone Wars" was produced between Episode II and III. What made those cool was that they filled in a lot of the gaps between the two movies. General Grievious is not all that interesting in Episode III, but he is awesome in the cartoon. Further, if you saw the clone wars, you understand why Grievious was coughing and injured when we first meet him in Episode III.
But I digress (and provide a suitable disclaimer for my enthusiasm!)
On Friday I took my seven year old son to see the new "Clone Wars" that was released in the theaters. In short, we had a great time.
Lucas has always wanted to produce saturday morning serials in space, and with the clone wars he finally has it. It even begins with the feel of "we join our fearless heros as they fight this epic battle!" with a cheesy announcer over the action. The Clone Wars is to be a TV series this fall on cartoon network, and this movie lays the groundwork for a lot of action adventure. I almost expected a voiceover at the end to say "tune in next week to see our heros fight evil once again!"
The story was simple, but a fun ride. Dooku is the prime villain, but the movie is about small piece of the galactic conflict and the republic having access to space routes controlled by the hutts. There are no earth shattering plot twists, it's simple and straightforward. Exactly what you would expect from a saturday morning serial aimed at kids.
The only uncomfortable moment for me is the character of ziro the hutt, who is clearly a transvestite. Thankfully, my son has no idea but I wasn't exactly amused. The character is terrible top to bottom, and has no place in a star wars universe. Hopefully he is history after this movie.
My son is seven, and he can't wait for the tv series this fall. And that's really the point. Lucas has always wanted to do this, and he finally has his venue. The Clone Wars lets him create what he has always wanted to do, and we get to come along and enjoy the ride. I am grateful that we can enjoy this. Would I go see this in the theater if I didn't have a seven year old? No, but I would definitely buy the dvd.
Joel
Friday, August 8, 2008
ChMS - PurposeWare
If you haven't already, you MUST read the summary of what we are looking for. This is critical to understand my comments. The vendors being reviewed work hard to provide a good product to serve the church, and they should be commended for that. Our needs are very specific, and just because a product isn't right for us does not mean that it isn't perfect for your church. By the same token, just because we didn't like a product does not mean it doesn't meet needs or provide genuine value to its clients. The blurb and "target market" are taken from the capterra list I referenced in my first post. Finally, my thoughts are my own and not an official position of my employer. Thank you.
This is the first company I am reviewing that made my "level 3" grouping. Once I've put a company through an analysis this in depth, I'm pretty sure they don't want me laying out every detail in such a public forum, so my level three analysis may seem a little brief, but I'll try to give you my overall impression of the product.
PurposeWare
Simple, easy-to-use, web-based management system for your entire church. Manage members, track visitors & get people plugged into ministry.
Target Market: Small - Large
Quick Summary - Good looking site, like the focus on people.
http://www.purposeware.com/core.aspx
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - Smallish company, separate sales organization in gofishmedia.
How many customers? - Contact them for this info.
How long in business? - 2003
Are they profitable? - Declined to state.
Technical Details - .NET 3.5, AJAX, MS SQL 2005
Volunteer Management - Some good ideas, but missing some key features.
Web Integration - Yes, SAAS product
Attendance - Cannot handle our weekend attendance easily.
Assimilation - Integrates SHAPE, no online gifts assessment.
Level 2 Summary - Frustratingly little real information on their website, but the product looks solid. Although I don’t like doing this, something about PurposeWare appeals to me, so I will take them to a level 3 analysis.
Level 3 Summary - PurposeWare is an attractive looking product, but it is not mature enough for our needs. While I enjoyed our interaction with PurposeWare, there were too many issues with handling a dataset of our size that would make it a step backwards for much of our current functionality. Clearly not for us.
This is the first company I am reviewing that made my "level 3" grouping. Once I've put a company through an analysis this in depth, I'm pretty sure they don't want me laying out every detail in such a public forum, so my level three analysis may seem a little brief, but I'll try to give you my overall impression of the product.
PurposeWare
Simple, easy-to-use, web-based management system for your entire church. Manage members, track visitors & get people plugged into ministry.
Target Market: Small - Large
Quick Summary - Good looking site, like the focus on people.
http://www.purposeware.com/core.aspx
Level 2 Analysis:
How big? - Smallish company, separate sales organization in gofishmedia.
How many customers? - Contact them for this info.
How long in business? - 2003
Are they profitable? - Declined to state.
Technical Details - .NET 3.5, AJAX, MS SQL 2005
Volunteer Management - Some good ideas, but missing some key features.
Web Integration - Yes, SAAS product
Attendance - Cannot handle our weekend attendance easily.
Assimilation - Integrates SHAPE, no online gifts assessment.
Level 2 Summary - Frustratingly little real information on their website, but the product looks solid. Although I don’t like doing this, something about PurposeWare appeals to me, so I will take them to a level 3 analysis.
Level 3 Summary - PurposeWare is an attractive looking product, but it is not mature enough for our needs. While I enjoyed our interaction with PurposeWare, there were too many issues with handling a dataset of our size that would make it a step backwards for much of our current functionality. Clearly not for us.
Thursday, August 7, 2008
ChMS - Arena - I totally missed the boat
So if you've been following along, I've been hard at work trying to discern the best church management system for our church. I started with a huge list of companies, and narrowed it down several times to this point.
Several of the vendors who did not make the cut to round three have contacted me, but one really stood out to me. When I reviewed the information available online about Arena, it seemed to me to be a web integration module for the old shelby church management package. I was puzzled by that because my impression going into this comparison was that it was much more. Chris Rivers of Arena contacted me with a friendly little sales pitch for Arena, and included this statement "4. Arena is a complete ChMS solution including Contributions, Online Giving and Online Registrations."
Since that was widely different than what I had written, I took them up on their offer of a demo to clear the matter up...
In short, Arena is a very full featured solution and an incredible product. Although I have been very reluctant to move anyone else into my "top six" it would be foolish not to after looking over the product today. After spending time with Mark White and looking over the product in pretty good detail, I can say without qualification that Arena deserves consideration by any larger church looking for a ChMS solution.
Was it perfect? No. The demo process started off very bumpy when the solution they are using from go2meeting required windows, which I do not use. We were able to resolve that by setting up a different type of meeting that works on macs, but it took a little while. During the demo, we discovered that Mark had installed some new modules that did not work properly and we will have to go back at a later time to revisit some of the functionality. I'm very concerned about the windows-centric nature of Shelby as a company, and today didn't resolve those concerns, but that's why my research isn't over :-)
Still, I was very impressed by what they have to offer and will be giving them a complete level 3 analysis.
Joel
Several of the vendors who did not make the cut to round three have contacted me, but one really stood out to me. When I reviewed the information available online about Arena, it seemed to me to be a web integration module for the old shelby church management package. I was puzzled by that because my impression going into this comparison was that it was much more. Chris Rivers of Arena contacted me with a friendly little sales pitch for Arena, and included this statement "4. Arena is a complete ChMS solution including Contributions, Online Giving and Online Registrations."
Since that was widely different than what I had written, I took them up on their offer of a demo to clear the matter up...
In short, Arena is a very full featured solution and an incredible product. Although I have been very reluctant to move anyone else into my "top six" it would be foolish not to after looking over the product today. After spending time with Mark White and looking over the product in pretty good detail, I can say without qualification that Arena deserves consideration by any larger church looking for a ChMS solution.
Was it perfect? No. The demo process started off very bumpy when the solution they are using from go2meeting required windows, which I do not use. We were able to resolve that by setting up a different type of meeting that works on macs, but it took a little while. During the demo, we discovered that Mark had installed some new modules that did not work properly and we will have to go back at a later time to revisit some of the functionality. I'm very concerned about the windows-centric nature of Shelby as a company, and today didn't resolve those concerns, but that's why my research isn't over :-)
Still, I was very impressed by what they have to offer and will be giving them a complete level 3 analysis.
Joel
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)